Fermenting Timespan

[earthstanding]

I've read some of Sandor's recipes that said that you should let some foods ferment for up to 1-4 weeks at room temperature and the refrigerate. Sally Fallon of Nourishing Traditions says you should ferment for "about three days" and then refrigerate.

How long can or should you ferment vegetables at room temperature?

[Tim Hall]

I've only gathered bits from Sally Fallon's book, but it seems to me she likes to ferment things with whey for only a brief time. This works for something like a fermented salsa (which turns out only moderately fermented), but you won't get sour dills in that time span.

For something like pickles, sauerkraut or kimchi, you'll probably want to let the ferment go at least a week. Ultimately your taste buds should decide.

Refrigeration stops (or significantly slows) the fermentation so it doesn't get too sour, and slows down the oxidation of the food.

Generally here's how it works:
Less salt = faster fermentation
Higher temp = faster fermentation
Inoculate with existing culture (whey for example) = faster
More salt = slower fermentation
Lower temp = slower fermentation
Slower fermentation often = more mellow and/or developed flavors (but this is not an absolute rule)

[earthstanding]

Thanks for the reply. I learned that traditional ferments used to be stored underground or in unheated cellars for long periods of time in order to preserve them. I found that fascinating.

[Christopher Weeks]

And it depends on the process and situation. I've had veggies in a nuka pot for a month at room temp.

[lizzieb]

On this topic - knowing when the ferment is done...I've seen a post or two here which has said that the ferment is done when the brine 'clears' is this the general experience? And does 'clears' mean, well, clear, as though it were just water, or does it just mean less murky?

And does the rate of scum growth on the top correlate at all?

I've been fermenting a corn-kernel/pepper mix for a few weeks now, at coolish outdoor temps but in the kitchen which is often warm; the brine is still murky but I think the rate of scum growth on the top of the brine has slowed a little.

I know I should be tasting it to check but the arrangement I have for keeping the veggies (in a muslin bag) under the brine is sort of complex and jerry-rigged so I'm loathe to disturb it until I think it's really gotten somewhere!

[fermented-vegan]

Hello lizzieb, :)

On this topic - knowing when the ferment is done...I've seen a post or two here which has said that the ferment is done when the brine 'clears' is this the general experience?

It's been my experience. I can't speak for everyone else though.

And does 'clears' mean, well, clear, as though it were just water, or does it just mean less murky?

No, not transparent clear. Clear as in no longer a cloudy brine.

And does the rate of scum growth on the top correlate at all?

Back when I did open ferments, I did not find this to be the case. Scum would continue to grow through out the fermentation time on top of my sauerkraut brine no matter how diligent I was about skimming it out of there.

I now do closed anaerobic ferments and have never had issues with mold, or scum growing on top of the brine or the vegetables. The CO2 produced by the ferment in the jar keeps that from happening. And I've had the most successful and best tasting vegetable ferments this way to the point where I feel I have the technique down for vegetable ferments. It's just a matter of trying different recipes or combinations. I recommend you give this technique a try. It's very inexpensive using glass Ball or Mason canning jars of one quart or half gallon sizes.

I've been fermenting a corn-kernel/pepper mix for a few weeks now, at coolish outdoor temps but in the kitchen which is often warm; the brine is still murky but I think the rate of scum growth on the top of the brine has slowed a little.

I know I should be tasting it to check but the arrangement I have for keeping the veggies (in a muslin bag) under the brine is sort of complex and jerry-rigged so I'm loathe to disturb it until I think it's really gotten somewhere!

In my own humble opinion this setup just seems like a pain. If you were doing this in a glass canning jar, you would not need any bags or weights, and you could just open the jar if you wanted to taste it. But even better, because the glass is transparent, you can watch to see when the brine clears to give you an idea of when it is done, and then you can taste it to be sure.

Peace & Love from a vegan :)

[lizzieb]

This is all great, thank you! Now the dumb question, what do you mean exactly by closed anaerobic ferment, what is the technique? Is it a mason jar with brine filled right to the top?

[fermented-vegan]

Hello Lizzieb, :)

What I mean by a closed anaerobic ferment, is using a container with a lid on it to keep oxygen out of the ferment. So in my case, I am using glass Ball/Mason one quart and half gallon canning jars. You don't want to fill it right to the top, because you have to allow for the expansion of the ferment. Otherwise you end up with brine overflowing out the lid a few days into the ferment. (Putting the jar on a saucer or plate is a good safety net to contain the brine in case it does overflow.) With the jars I use, I try not to fill them past where the jar starts to narrow (the shoulder). Then cover the jar(s) with a towel to keep sunlight out, as ultra-violet light kills the good bacteria/yeasts.

Peace & Love from a vegan :)