Burp or Bust?

[spongebob]

My first real post after the introduction, so patience please. I am a space limited and budget limited raw fermentation enthusiast, and so far really only been making experimental variations of spicy cabbage like kimchi. I use mason jars with airlocks.

I only have airlocks for two jars (I'd buy more of those special lids if everything for raw fermentation wasn't so ridiculously overpriced) and I'd like to ramp up production. So it seems to me like after that initial burst of fermentation, I could replace the airlock lids with regular mason jar lids, and start another batch. If I do, I understand I can burp them, but how real is the possibility of exploding jars? I ask because the more I burp them if it's not needed I'm just letting air into the jar, which is bad right?

[JohnDulleck]

Hi, and welcome!

I too am fairly new to raw fermentation as I have only done a dozen or so batches and all of them have been in mason jars with the traditional ring and seal 2-piece lids.

I do not own any airlocks and have never had any trouble with exploding jars. I do remember to burp my jars at least once, and more often twice per day in the first week. After fermentation has slowed, I have found that once every two or three days is sufficient.

In fact, even for the first few days of fermentation, mason jar lids are intended for a vacuum seal. You have to screw a lid on super tight to seal it well enough to build up a high pressure. I am pretty sure of this because, if I fill my jar a little too full, even with a fairly well sealed jar, liquid will be forde out the top. I liquid can make it past the seal, then escaping CO2 can too.

My personal feeling is, keeping the entire ferment submerged is more important than an airlock. But others may differ on this.

[spongebob]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my newbie question John! That's good news for my pocketbook. I have plenty of jars and lids. I know google is my friend but I would also like some ideas from this forum on how to submerge on the cheap when you are using regular, not wide mouth jars.

[JohnDulleck]

You could try what I've been doing.

Measure the mouth of your jars, then buy some disposable plastic drink cups, the largest size with a base that will fit the mouth of your jars.

Use a scissors to cut a vertical slit in the cup from top to bottom, this will allow the cup to fit into the jar. Cut a small V shaped holes in the base of the cup so brine can enter.

Now, when your jar is full, use some cabbage leaf on top of your ferment to avoid floaters, and make sure you have enough brine to cover the cabbage leaves.

Put the prepared cup into the jar and press down until,everything is under the brine. Mark the cup with a marking pen even with the top of the jar and cut off the excess. Put the cup back in the jar and screw on the lid and check to make sure that everything is submerged. If not, add more brine right into the cup. It will flow out the V holes until and cover whatever is uncovered.

Now just replace the lid and wait.

Sorry for the long explanation, but once you have all of the details it's really easy to do.

[Tibor]

I would not use plastic in a ferment. We all know that there are varied methods to a successful ferment. I personally like to keep things simple while using readily available jars. If I may suggest for a small ferment, I would get a half gallon wide mouth jar that I would fill 2/3 of the way full with veggies and find a tall jar that would just fit inside of the wide mouth for the weighing down part(olives and pickled stuff come in tall narrow jars). You can add water to the jar if you need more weight. Don't use the lid so it's easier to get out. Save a cabbage leaf or slices of any veggie to put around the rim in the 1/2 gallon to keep floaters from happening, put in your small jar and cover with a cloth. I mention a half gallon jar because you don't have to worry about overfilling and brine leaking out and the inside jar doesn't have to stick up much past the rim of the bigger jar. Simple open ferment. I use cylindrical clear glass vases for my small ferments.

[JohnDulleck]

Thanks Tibor,

I like your jar in a jar solution better than my plastic cup one. That has been kind of a stop-gap solution which I just replaced this weekend with glass fermentation weights.

I also wanted to comment about fermentation rates. I just started a new sauerkraut ferment on Saturday using green cabbage, jalapeno peppers, onion, and garlic. Instead of using 3 tablespoons of salt for 1/2 gallon of ferment, I used 2 for the first time.

I did the usual massage and pack and added a few tablespoons of kraut juice from my last ferment. The brine level was 1 1/2 inches below the lip of my 1/2 gallon mason jarwith everything, including the glass weight, fully submerged.

By Saturday evening I was seeing significant bubbling, and on Sunday I changed to paper towel under the jar 4 times, completely soaked. Normally I will need to change the paper towel once per day.

Is all of this early, very active activity due only to the less amount of salt? It's been a real surprise to me.

[Tibor]

Yes .The less salt you use, the faster the fermentation(up to a point). I use salt to weight ratio(3 TBS/5 #) not volume. That, to me, is more exact. I wouldn't fill a jar so full to start with and I can understand why it leaks.Also onions release a bunch of water. Maybe you should graduate to a larger jar or small crock or my favorite as I mentioned before. I have a couple of glass vases that are a bit bigger in diameter than a half gallon jar but are 12" tall ,and hold 3/4 of a gallon or more.

[Christopher Weeks]

Fido jars have been a great solution for me. I don't burp and I pay way less attention to getting produce secured below the brine than I do with open ferments.

E.g. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... s=fido+jar

[JohnDulleck]

Christopher,

Do you deal with mold much? And I take it, if you don't have to burp, the rubber seal allows internal pressure to release?

Thanks.

[Christopher Weeks]

When I first put up some produce to ferment, I do make an effort to get it under the brine, but I don't sweat if much. Then I seal up the Fido. At that point, there's normal air that will support pathogens like mold. But pretty quickly, the ferment gets under way and kicks off other gasses that displace, over time, the starting air. I think this is primarily CO2, but also methane and other gasses. That displacement happens through the rubber ring. Pressure builds up and builds up and reaches the point where the ring lets it out and it hisses out and the rubber ring reseals the jar, so gas only passes one direction (out).

In that process, it's not too uncommon for the produce to fluff up and some rises above the brine level. It has literally never molded at this point. I have to assume there are mold spores in there (they're everywhere!) but they simply can't thrive without oxygen.

I have had mold occur later, after the fermentation is complete, when I open the jar and start eating. Even then, it isn't always, and you can refrigerate if you want to minimize that risk. I think after several months of fermenting, most of the microbial action is done and a lot less gas is being given off. But not none.

As a caveat: someone here (I think), a few years ago, posted an experience where a Fido seal didn't work that way and blew up. I have about three dozen Fidos and that's never happened to me, but maybe it does sometimes.