Turkey Soup Fermenting (Whoops)

[FermentingYeti]

I'm a fan of fermenting and have read Wild Fermentation closely. I just fermented some turkey soup unintentionally and am considering eating it. It doesn't taste vinegary, but has a definite "fermenty" taste to it. Here's what happened: we cooked a turkey earlier in the week (Tuesday I believe). Kept the carcass in the fridge and ate off it for most of the week. We made soup Saturday and left it in the "outdoor pantry" (it was nearly 20 degrees overnight). Had some for lunch and it was still yummy. I found some turkey broth that I had put in the fridge when we cooked the turkey and forgot about, put it in the pot this afternoon, heated it a bit and then put it back in the outdoor pantry with the lid on. Here's where it gets interesting-I went to check it this evening and it's fermenting. Veggies floated to the top and it's bubbling away like one of my fermenting meads. We had all kinds of vegetables in it, including beans. Has anyone else experienced this? Should we toss it or trust that it's ok because it fermented naturally?

[Tim Hall]

Fermenting animals is the one department I advise caution. The protocol also doesn't sound quite right.

I'm pretty cavalier in my experiments, but this one I'd toss...and I rarely make that suggestion. Reasoning: 1) I understand you have lots of veggies in there, but high protein foods (animals) are a vector for baddies, and a sound method of preservation is needed here. 2) If the soup has been heated up to pasteurization temperature (~145F) or above, you've killed off most or all the good bacteria, potentially leaving only really heat-tolerant bugs, i.e. Clostridium botulinum. Also bringing a liquid up to boiling or simmering drives oxygen out of solution.

high protein + high temperature + zero oxygen potentially = botulism.

[FermentingYeti]

Thanks Tim. I plan on tossing it due to the fact that it has meat. I just thought I'd post as I've made a lot of large pots of soup and this is the first time I've had one go from perfectly good to fermented in just a couple hours. Any idea how to avoid this in the future? We often make large stock pots of soup, allow them to cool for a couple hours room temperature and then refrigerate/freeze them in several containers. I'm just curious about what combined elements caused this to happen. Maybe it was left in the (fairly cold) pantry for too long, which caused the bacteria to take over quickly. Perhaps warming it up and then setting it back out is what caused it to pasteurize? I appreciate any input anyone can provide. I do plan on fermenting some vegetables using the proper methods in the future.

[Tim Hall]

You know I'm wondering if you weren't observing some other kinda of phenomena...maybe something to do with rapid cooling. A couple of hours is REALLY fast for a wild ferment to show visible signs. Usually only really aggressive commercial cultures do that kind of thing.

[Christopher Weeks]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I mean, I've been vegetarian for just over twenty years now, so I don't have opinion guided by personal experience about your soup, but I bet it's safe and something else is going on.

[FermentingYeti]

That's why I asked here. It seemed to happen way too quick. I posted this on another site (http://www.earthineer.com/mainPage.php), and here's what we determined:

Yes, I've had this happen. Here's your problem..."I found some turkey broth that I had put in the fridge when we cooked the turkey and forgot about, put it in the pot this afternoon, heated it a bit and then put it back in the outdoor pantry with the lid on". You cooked the turkey and broth on Tuesday and six days later you added broth that had only been refrigerated, not frozen. Refrigeration doesn't stop decay, it only slows it down.

Most likely, your broth developed some funk. Broth is usually made with the innards of the bird and organ meat spoils very fast. Fresh, raw usually only lasts a day or two. Cooked lasts 3-4 days.

Here's a great site for finding out how long food keeps: http://www.stilltasty.com/fooditems/index/16776

Then you say you, "heated it a bit and then put it back in the outdoor pantry with the lid on". Even if you had boiled it for 10 minutes...

It would only have killed the neurotoxin produced during growth of the C. botulinum bacteria. It does NOT kill the spores. From http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FACTSheets/Clo ... /index.asp

"While the spores are generally harmless, the danger can occur once the spores begin to grow out into active bacteria and produce neurotoxins...C. botulinum bacteria and other bacteria present will be destroyed by the boiling of water and food, but the C. botulinum spores will not be destroyed."

In order for that food to be safe, you would have had to keep it at a full, rolling boil for ten minutes and then consumed it as soon as it cooled enough to eat. By cooking, cooling, warming, cooling, adding (probably) spoiled broth, warming, cooling, you created an environment for the botulinum spores to reproduce.

TOSS IT.

[Christopher Weeks]

I guess it does sound kind of shady when you put it that way. :)