can you ferment with just spices?

[bravebird]

apparently many spices do well at preserving foods, including cinnamon and turmeric. i used an abundance of these two spices to ferment fruit, but i'm wondering if they are enough to keep the bad guys away. i tried before with salt and just couldn't bare the taste. do you think it's safe or should i just stick to salt/whey?

[Christopher Weeks]

Unless you can find some documented procedure, I think it'll require testing. Are you wanting to find an alternative fermentation vector to LAB or encourage LAB with something other than salt? Will the cinnamon and turmeric kill/stress the LAB themselves?

Maybe a much lighter salt-brine with the addition of these spices would let the LAB form while keeping molds, etc away, particularly if it's under an airlock the whole time and keep the flavor of the salt in your acceptable range?

Do you enjoy the flavor of commercial lacto-fermented foods?

[bravebird]

i just wanted to prevent the salty taste of a fruit ferment i did a few days back. it was somewhat horrible and had to be diluted due to the salt. i was just taking extra precaution as not to encounter any mold or strange things in my jars...and plus i ran out of my good whole foods salt i use to ferment, lol.
maybe i'll try again with a touch of salt and less spice.
cant find any research showing how cinnamon/spices impact growth of LAB. but i'll surely let you know how my 2 ferments will turn out, lol. for about a liter of pureed fruit i added about 1 tbls cinnamon and 1/2 tbls turmeric. no salt. i'll keep you posted on what happens..

[bravebird]

Unless you can find some documented procedure, I think it'll require testing. Are you wanting to find an alternative fermentation vector to LAB or encourage LAB with something other than salt? Will the cinnamon and turmeric kill/stress the LAB themselves?

Maybe a much lighter salt-brine with the addition of these spices would let the LAB form while keeping molds, etc away, particularly if it's under an airlock the whole time and keep the flavor of the salt in your acceptable range?

Do you enjoy the flavor of commercial lacto-fermented foods?

and i havent really purchased many commercial lacto-fermented foods for one good reason...they are just unreasonably expensive. whole foods has one tiny fermented section and buying these goods would leave me broke. the cheapest might be Miso paste which can be a bargain at about $3.50, WHEN it's on sale...other than that it's like $5, which still isnt too bad...but the other stuff is outrageous. Miso making is a bit out of touch for me, but i'm not going to pay $7 for anybody's jar of sauerkraut when i can salt and pound organic cabbage myself for about half the price with twice as much product.

[parkranger]

i don't know about turmeric and cinnamon, but there is a german method of making sauerkraut that involves juniper berries and caraway instead of salt to inhibit molds. i imagine any herb with anti-microbial properties could be used, in the same way that they're used in alcohol. try it!

[bravebird]

i don't know about turmeric and cinnamon, but there is a german method of making sauerkraut that involves juniper berries and caraway instead of salt to inhibit molds. i imagine any herb with anti-microbial properties could be used, in the same way that they're used in alcohol. try it!

yes, i read about this as well. so far my fermented fruit does seem to be fermenting well. i see tons of cracks in the fruit puree, a sign that the bacteria is doing some work.hard to tell if there's any mold because i put a nice layer of cinnamon on top so it's all muddy looking...but nothing alarming. it's been only 3 days, might give it a few more days. it seems most fruit calls for a shorter fermentation but i'm ready to let it go for at least a couple weeks, lol. we'll see.
oh, and the cinnamon/turmeric idea i got from minced meat. supposedly people used spices to preserve meats for a long period. i figured that if it works for meat, it must work for fruit.

[bravebird]

should i stop? lol. notice the entire puree has been lifted.
no salt, just cinnamon and turmeric.

[Marveen]

I have fermented papaya with just turmeric and cinnamon.
It tastes fermented, has that lactic tang, it took longer than I would have thought for fruit but I think the spices, particularly the cinnamon preserves it to an extent.
Anyway, no mild or spoilage. I ut olive oil on the top as the seal to keep it all tight as I don't have any special equipment so literally, mashed loads of papaya (also mango and sweet onion), with cinnamon and turmeric, put it in jam jars and added olive oil as seal then none air tight lids.
I overfilled the jars as they swelled up LOADS, I would only fill 3/4 including oil in future so the bigger the jar the better. They made the lids stick up and when I opened them fizzed ALlover, the was after a couple of weeks maybe (sorry, I should keep notes, it was awhile back and I am still eating it, to the finest tasting tbh but good for you).
Anyway, I just rescued the stuff that spat out and put that in other jars and all still good, no spoilage whatsoever and no salt at all.

[bravebird]

yeah i think the cinnamon and turmeric do a decent job, although i had one jar i threw out because it was getting mold, and one has a few specs of mold :( i probably should've done the olive oil too but i didnt think the fruit would taste good with olive oil...guess it didnt matter though as i probably would've just scraped the top portion off. two of my ferments did raise like crazy...with some spillage going on. the moldy/questionable two ferments didnt behave as such and pretty much have stayed at the same level. i think it's a healthy ferment also...will definitely try again, but maybe adding a bit of salt, or at least a top layer of salt/water.

[GregR]

My wife is VERY sensitive to salt, so we assumed for a long time that fermented foods were no longer an option for her, until I found some fermented veggies at the local Whole Foods with a very low salt content. She loved them so I started doing some research. We have since fermented both a vegetable mix (broccoli, carrot, cucumber, celery, garlic and onion) and kraut, without salt. At first we used celery juice, but did not care for the taste. Then I read this from Sandor:

"Though it is possible to ferment vegetables without salt, a little salt results in far superior flavor and texture—and just as much beneficial bacteria."

So we tried both combinations with no added salt. I also read (I believe in Wild Fermentation) that salt-free ferments will ferment much more quickly. That did indeed turn out to be the case, as it only took the salt-free ferments two days achieve approximately the same flavor/tang as the salted ones that were out for a week (I still use salt in my ferments).

She has been eating these for month with no ill effects. We do take care that the vegetables are completely submerged while fermenting (we use mason jars), as it is my understanding that, as long as the vegetables are in an anaerobic environment, they will ferment.

Hope this helps.